Face to face - meeting Nat McDermott
We sat down with one of Kinase’s expert Account Directors to find out their views on the state of search and the challenges to be faced in the industry right now
We sat down with one of Kinase’s expert Account Directors to find out their views on the state of search and the challenges to be faced in the industry right now
Nat joined Kinase in 2018 as a graduate. Since completing the Kinase Academy training course, they have worked across a mix of clients, developing as an exec and manager on Lovehoney, and supporting across all markets in one capacity or another during peak pandemic growth. They then moved to grow Reed.co.uk across recruitment, courses and learning businesses. Here they developed a passion for full funnel strategies, working closely with the Kinase paid social team. Nat also developed and grew Reed’s app activity across Apple and Google, with the latter platform resulting in a shortlist for the EMEA Premier Partner Awards.
Of all the things you could be doing, what made you want to do digital marketing?
My degree was in linguistics - which is a mixture of science and… not science. There’s the science of how the brain processes language, for example, and then there is a lot of theory on top of that, such as different ideas about how language evolved. When I was looking for jobs I was attracted to things which had a similar mixture of science and not-science. It seemed to me that digital marketing was exactly that. There’s data analysis but there’s also talking to clients, and developing a team.
Yes - I think that’s what appeals to a lot of people about the job. I think people come into the job nowadays with a greater understanding that it’s both science and dare I say “art” - but 7 years ago when you started it wasn’t so true. What else do you think has changed in that time?
So much has changed! I remember spending so much time looking at bid modifier sheets. I hated the day parting one. But I remember analysing it, making some changes, and they worked. That was good - then I thought “I know what I am doing”. In those days it was more technical, by which I mean what we were doing was quite far removed from what the clients were thinking about. The conversations now are all about AI and the tools it creates, which actually brings us closer to what the clients are thinking about.
Interesting! Are there more examples of this?
Well automation has been part of Google Ads for a long time - for example, showing the ads with the highest CTR% - but four years ago the language was about “algorithms” and “machine learning”. Clients, I think, thought that was far removed from them.
Now people are more interested in AI generally. There’s been no sudden change in the technology, it has been gradual - but now when we talk about what we’re doing, I think it’s easier to make it seem more relevant. At the same time the AI-based tools are better and you can use them for so many things. We were generating images for use in PMax campaigns this week and it’s so much better than it was even a few months ago. We made some great images for Haynes with people fixing different cars and motorbikes.
This can unlock doors with clients who don’t have a lot of time to refresh creative. We can take initiative and say “We’ve generated these based on your brand, what do you think?” That’s what I mean when I say what we are doing now is closer to what the client is thinking about. Honestly, optimising all those modifier sheets seems such a long time ago.
It’s great to hear such a positive take on AI and automation. As an old hand I know I can focus too much on the control and visibility we’ve lost - but it is true that it really does free up time to focus on more important things. It was a huge change when Google said that Pmax is all about creative and signals.
“Yes, if I think back 7 years, we’d be looking at creative like this, or focusing on improving the data quality for Smart Bidding/AI driven campaigns via audiences and measurement - it’s so different!”
I’m glad I was there in the “old times”. I know how all the moving parts in an account fit together, and all the available actions and how they are likely to influence performance. For example, you still get spend spikes, and you have to answer when the client asks, “Why did that happen?” Of course, Google will say it’s because the algorithm spotted an opportunity, but we have to explain why it thought that, and so we need to understand how everything fits together.
Yes, it’s the point about best practice being to use AI but then have a skilled human check the results. But I worry that if people are no longer developing hands-on skills like you did (for example by doing a manual bid optimisation and then observing the results), how are they going to be equipped to carry out the checks?
You have to impart that knowledge to other people, when these things arise. Typically by pointing them in the direction of what to look at, then letting them go and look into it themselves. Then you discuss what they’ve found. Maybe that doesn’t take as long as in the old days when it was all manual - but there are lots of other things to do in the day that maybe we didn’t have to do before. I am thinking of constant experimentation - trying out different things to find out the best approach. Clients are paying us for our time and expertise and maybe running tests to really understand a new feature, or how new features work with the existing features, is a better use of that time and expertise than poring over spreadsheets.
So maybe the modern way is a better use of our time - and maybe it’s even a better way to learn. You are forced to develop a test and learn approach, alongside critical thinking skills.
Yes, it’s not as if you don’t need a technical understanding of how the system works any more. For example, with data delays. For some clients, the average delay from click to sale is just two or three days. For others it’s more like 20 days. You need to understand this context, have experience thinking about the account, to be able to interpret what smart bidding is doing. Is that spend spike there for a good reason, or not?
Alongside that it’s not just text ads anymore, and it’s not just lower-funnel. There’s YouTube, Demand Gen, Performance Max … so we’re not just thinking about driving conversions directly, we’re thinking about how we can influence purchase decisions earlier on, alongside things like social, to fill the funnel. And then of course we’re thinking about how we can measure all of this.
“So, you have to keep testing. You still have to be thinking: What’s the most important thing I can do on this account right now? What’s the thing I can do that’s going to make a difference?”
And then there are always developments - like changes to how Responsive Search Ads work, and the new Search Max campaign type. The rate of change in Google Ads never slows does it?
My advice to people starting out would be “be prepared for change”. You have to accept that there will always be change, and then see it as a challenge. You’re always learning something new.
What’s the best thing about working at Kinase?
It’s the collaborative approach. Going on Slack and saying: a client has asked about this - what does everyone think? People are usually ready to reply and start a conversation.
What keeps you interested in all of this?
Working with clients, getting to know different businesses and verticals. That’s a benefit of being at an agency. Just because you’re selling an interesting product doesn’t necessarily mean that marketing it is interesting. Any business that’s really data-driven, that’s interesting.
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